Saturday, November 19, 2011

Another Secularist Argument

I wanted to post Secularist Jon Rowe's argument on World Net Daily from the other day, which shows some of the errors secularists are known for--if he is representative of them:
JG [me] has no evidence for his assertion. He (wrongly) assumes if you can't prove with smoking guns like there are with Jefferson, J. Adams, and Franklin (all three of whom btw had nominal connections to orthodox churches) the Founders were fundamentalists like him. He also uses his own abitrary standards to exclude folks as not Founders. Yes, in addition to the unitarian "key Founder" (Jefferson, J. Adams, and Franklin) there were DEISTS Founders -- Thomas Paine, Ethan Allen and Elihu Palmer. Likewise, there may not be "smoking guns" with Washington and Madison, but on balance, they seem closer to Jefferson, J. Adams, and Franklin than the "orthodox."
This blog is filled with evidence supporting my assertions. Moreover, I never called all the framers fundamentalists like me. Arbitrary standards? Is someone who helped draft, ratify, or exert significant influence in the founding of our country arbitrary standards? A pastor must exert significant influence, such as Samuel Cooper to be considered a founder. Was Elihu Palmer a Founding Father?

This blog has been quite cordial in showing the blatant mis-representations Jon Rowe has made pigeon-holing our founding fathers. For years, he claimed William Livingston was a unitarian--this blog refuted that. He claimed Samuel West was a unitarian--wrong again. He claimed Samuel Cooper was not orthodox--same story. Add to the others, claiming John Lathrop was likely a unitarian, refuted earlier on this blog. There are many other gaffes, including his claim there is no fundamental difference in The Laws of Nature and The Laws of Nature's God in the Declaration, when James Wilson, et al. specifically differentiated God and Nature, posted on this blog. Most of these incorrect assumptions happened because he didn't check the sources well enough.

But Elihu Palmer takes the cake. Palmer was born in 1764, graduated Dartmouth in 1787--the same year the Constitution was written! He never even pastored a church. Yet this guy was a "founder?" Did he help found the nation, some govt. dept. in some way I don't know about? He did nothing of significance to influence the founding. If influencing the founding was the criteria, then every senior pastor of every church was a founder, since they influenced entire churches that shaped religion, where Palmer, was blind by 30, dead at 42 years old.

James Madison is closer to Thomas Jefferson or Ben Franklin than to GW? These statements are mind-boggling. James Madison affirmed the Deity of Jesus Christ:
"Christ's divinity appears by St. John, ch. XX. v. 28."

"Resurrection testified and witnessed by the Apostles. Acts, ch. IV. v. 33."
--Madison's "Notes on Commentary on the Bible" found in The Papers of James Madison, p. 51-59. Vol. I. 16 Mar 1751 - 16 Dec. 1779.

In light of the above quotes, how is JM closer to TJ?

1 comment:

Jonathan Rowe said...

Again, you suffer from the Dunning Kruger Effect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect